Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Vai izmantojam žiroskopu ?

13
37%
11
31%
Ir doma iegādāties
4
11%
Kas tas ir?
7
20%
 
Total votes: 35

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Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by janissav » 19 Mar 2011, 14:39

Tie kas lieto žiroskopus lidmašīnās, helikopteros,...... Varat pastāstīt par savu pieredzi, kādu žiroskopu lietojat ?

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edge
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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by edge » 19 Mar 2011, 20:10

Esmu eksperimentējis ar dažādu ražotāju Gyro , pat ar HK ražotājiem. Ja grib nopietni lidot un uz precizitāti tad HK gyro nebūs īstie ko izvēlēties, bet iesākumā kamēr mācās ir ok. Vēl liela uzmanība ir jāpievērš astes servo , nav jēgas nopirkt labu gyro un uzlikt "dosja" servo.
Pēc savas pieredzēs es dotu šādus vērtējumus Gyro.
1 - vieta, Futaba GY701+Gov + BLS251
2 - vieta, Spartan ds760 + BLS251
3 - vieta, Futaba GY520 + BLS257

ar cieņu
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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by The Gardener » 19 Mar 2011, 21:10

Gyro ir domāti sissijiem :D :D :D :D

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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Uto » 21 Mar 2011, 10:55

Mana pieredze ir tāda, ka nopirku divus ķīniešu HK401B, lai eksperimenta pēc ieliktu lidojošajā spārnā. Rezultātā abi žiro papildināja manas neizmantotās elektronikas plauktu.
Tagad eksperimenta pēc pasūtīju pasūtīju divus GA-250 MINI-MEMS žiroskopus. :)

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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Romis » 23 Jul 2013, 18:53

Izmantoju HK401B, ir ok par savu cenu bet labāk iesaku ASSAN GA250 par aptuveni to pašu $ jo tam neko nevajag modot (HK jāuztaisa "hot glue mod" un tad var lidot).
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.” L. da Vinci

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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by edge » 23 Jul 2013, 19:52

Man šobrīd topā ir vbar, no Mikado.

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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Romis » 24 Jul 2013, 09:45

šobrīd var paņemt ar atlaidi (flybar) -
http://www.hobby-wing.com/eflite-g210-h ... -gyro.html

lasīju labas atsauksmes par šo priekš FBL -
http://www.hobby-wing.com/tarot-zyx-s-gyro-zyx08.html

konkrēti, par ZYX-S lasīju, ka šitais reāli strādājot:
Built-in pirouette flip optimization function, the speed of pirouette is really stable. When the helicopter pirouettes flip, the fuselage will spin at one point without shifting

..elektronika attīstās milzu soļiem 8)
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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Modrs » 07 Aug 2013, 06:18

Vai Assans GA250 gyro ir tas pats, kas HK GA250? Vizuāli 1:1 abi vienādi. Cik saprotu, tad ok par to cenu?

Tāpat Copterx CX3X1000 izskatās vienāds ar ZYX
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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Romis » 07 Aug 2013, 09:49

Varētu būt tas pats pa lielam, man ir Assan bet laika trūkuma dēļ vēl neesmu salicis kopā un izlidojis.
copterx un zyx ar varētu būt tas pats, copter pat lētāks bet bez PC vada cik noprotu, tas j'\apērk atsevišķi.
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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Modrs » 03 Oct 2013, 22:01

Vai kāds varētu nedaudz "prastāk" izskaidrot zemāk citētos FBL žiro settingus? (CopterX CX-3X1000, ZYX, 3GYS)
Izgāju visam cauri un saliku Beginner settingus, bet neesmu vēl provējis lidināt. Līdz tam helis taisīja voblingu ik pa laikam
Tail tuning:

- Yaw P

Proportional Gain generates a steering signal on the tail servo which is proportional to the rate error. The higher proportional gain is, the more direct the tail follows the stick. To setup proportional gain one should increase it until the tail has a high frequency shaking tendency and then decrease it. The default value is "80". The proportional gain depends strongly on the individual tail setup. Especially at larger helicopters with low tail power it can be increased by a factor of two.

- Yaw I

The Integral Gain corresponds to the heading hold gain of a normal gyro. It is used to produce an angular control of the tail. A to high value will result in a bad stopping behavior with a back bouncing tendency. When integral gain is to low, the tail is unstable on heavy pitch inputs and can not hold the position. The integral factor is almost independent on the tail setup of the helicopter. In default settings values are from beginner "25" to extreme "50".

- Yaw D

Stop gain. During a tail stop (from piros) it will be helpful to use a bit more tail gain to get a crispy stop.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".

- Acceleration L

Acceleration of the left pirouette
This limits the servo throw change per calculation frame on tail servo. For example having 3D helis with super tail rotors you will be able to get high accelerations without stall effects or bouncing on a stop. With a scaler and a weak tail it will have stall and overshoot with too much throw change each calculation cycle. So it should be lowered until we get a stop without bouncing. It will stop more smooth but without overloading the tail.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.

- Acceleration R

Acceleration of the right pirouette
This limits the servo throw change per calculation frame on tail servo. For example having 3D helis with super tail rotors you will be able to get high accelerations without stall effects or bouncing on a stop. With a scaler and a weak tail it will have stall and overshoot with too much throw change each calculation cycle. So it should be lowered until we get a stop without bouncing. It will stop more smooth but without overloading the tail.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.

- Deceleration L

Deceleration of the left pirouette.
If the helicopter tail does not decelerate as fast as the gyro anticipates it overshoots the intended stop position, then the gyro brings the tail back. The end result is bouncy stop. Since the main rotor torque assist the stops in one direction, bounce is often observed in the other direction only. To eliminate bounce you can either improve the mechanical setup to keep the gyro happy in line with default gyro configuration tailored for high performance 3D helis. Or, lower the gyro's deceleration rate to match the particular heli.
However note that stops may start to feel very soft if the deceleration is dropped too far.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
Default settings values are from beginner "20" to extreme "35".

- Deceleration R

Deceleration of the right pirouette
If the helicopter tail does not decelerate as fast as the gyro anticipates it overshoots the intended stop position, then the gyro brings the tail back. The end result is bouncy stop. Since the main rotor torque assist the stops in one direction, bounce is often observed in the other direction only. To eliminate bounce you can either improve the mechanical setup to keep the gyro happy in line with default gyro configuration tailored for high performance 3D helis. Or, lower the gyro's deceleration rate to match the particular heli.
However note that stops may start to feel very soft if the deceleration is dropped too far.
Also if this value is too high it might cause stripping of tail TT gears.
Default settings values are from beginner "20" to extreme "35".

- Tail deadband RC

The deadband of the tail (Rudder) stick.
The RC deadband is to ignore input from sticks that don't return to zero and to remove cross channel stick changes when the sticks are moved to the limit on the two axises. To small a value will make it hard to do single axis maneuvers without a change in the other axis (i.e. a flip ends up rolling left or right during the flip...). Bigger value means that you have to move more rudder stick before anything happens.
This avoids drifting from stick pots and servo noise.
Default settings values are from beginner "80" to extreme "40".

- Tail deadband gyro

The deadband of the yaw gyro
The Gyro deadband is the value used to ignore small changes coming from the gyro MEMS sensors.
This avoids drifting from gyro and servo noise. Big number results in poor stability and drift. Too small a number can overwork your tail servo.
Default "4" in all configurations.

- Pirouette speed L

The maximum left pirouette speed. Turning speed when rudder is on the left.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "45".

- Pirouette speed R

The maximum right pirouette speed. Turning speed when rudder is on the right.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "45".

- Tail compensate Col>tail

The ratio of collective pitch mixing to tail pitch.
Compensation factor for tail pitch when using high positive and negative collective pitch.
Default "0" in all configurations.

- Tail compensate Cyc>tail

The ratio of cyclic pitch mixing to tail pitch.
Compensation factor for tail when using cyclic (doing tight rolls and loops).
Default "0" in all configurations.

("Tail compensate Cyclic to tail" and "Tail compensate Collective to tail" settings are used to fine tune the helicopter tail so that tail will be perfectly steady when doing for example tic tocs. If these aren't used tail still hold, but it will wiggle a bit when gyro is making it's corrections. With these settings it's possible to give some advance to tail so that gyro doesn't need to do corrections for tail.)

Swash tuning:

- Roll P gain

Proportional Gain produces an regulative action on the swash plate which is proportional to the measured rate error on the swash plate and thus proportional gain makes the aileron rate follow the rate commanded on the swash sticks. Abrupt stops of flips should be free of high frequency shaking. If this is not the case the proportional gain is to high. Also if this is too high, instability and hunting will tend to occur.
Default "80" in all configurations.
With fast cyclic servos this can be increased.
(In all five default profiles "Roll P gain" value is identical to "Pitch P gain" value.)

- Roll I gain

Integral gain is responsible that the helicopter keeps the direction under all circumstances. When wind forces the helicopter out of its direction, the integral gain is correcting this. Fast forward flight is also stabilized by the integral gain. Integral gain must be setup so that the helicopter stable during load changes on swash plate. When integral gain is set to high, the stopping behavior on swash plate is influenced negatively: the helicopter gets a tendency to slowly drift back after a hard stop. A to high integral gain has also bad influence on fast forward flight: The elevator control feeling becomes doughy and in extreme situations even slow oscillations (approx. 1 Hz) can appear.
With fast cyclic servos integral gain can be increased after the first flights in order to get more flight stability.
Default settings values are from beginner "120" to extreme "60".
(In all five default profiles "Roll I gain" value is identical to "Pitch I gain" value.)

- Roll D gain

The Derivative (D) Gain effects the helicopters behavior after a control input is suddenly released. This Gain allows attenuation of the helicopter body tremor which is generated when the helicopter has been stopped by a sudden movement of the control stick. In the situation where the P Gain and I Gain have been made too large, the helicopter body may oscillate if the sticks are operated by flicking them with your fingers. By increasing the D Gain, the oscillation in the above situation will be reduced, and it will be possible to further increase the I Gain. Care will be required, because if the D Gain is too large, small oscillations may continue, or the vibration of the helicopter may cause sudden and severe hunting to occur.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
(In all five default profiles "Roll D gain" value is identical to "Pitch D gain" value.)

- Pitch P gain

Proportional Gain produces an regulative action on the swash plate which is proportional to the measured rate error on the swash plate and thus proportional gain makes the elevator rate follow the rate commanded on the swash sticks. Too high proportional gain can cause a oscillating tendency on elevator in fast forward flight and also a bad stopping behavior on elevator rate changes. Also if this is too high, instability and hunting will tend to occur.
Default "80" in all configurations.
With fast cyclic servos this can be increased.
(In all five default profiles "Roll P gain" value is identical to "Pitch P gain" value.)

- Pitch I gain

Integral gain is responsible that the helicopter keeps the direction under all circumstances. When wind forces the helicopter out of its direction, the integral gain is correcting this. Fast forward flight is also stabilized by the integral gain. Integral gain must be setup so that the helicopter stable during load changes on swash plate. When integral gain is set to high, the stopping behavior on swash plate is influenced negatively: the helicopter gets a tendency to slowly drift back after a hard stop. A to high integral gain has also bad influence on fast forward flight: The elevator control feeling becomes doughy and in extreme situations even slow oscillations (approx. 1 Hz) can appear.
With fast cyclic servos integral gain can be increased after the first flights in order to get more flight stability.
Default settings values are from beginner "120" to extreme "60".
(In all five default profiles "Roll I gain" value is identical to "Pitch I gain" value.)

- Pitch D gain

The Derivative (D) Gain effects the helicopters behavior after a control input is suddenly released. This Gain allows attenuation of the helicopter body tremor which is generated when the helicopter has been stopped by a sudden movement of the control stick. In the situation where the P Gain and I Gain have been made too large, the helicopter body may oscillate if the sticks are operated by flicking them with your fingers. By increasing the D Gain, the oscillation in the above situation will be reduced, and it will be possible to further increase the I Gain. Care will be required, because if the D Gain is too large, small oscillations may continue, or the vibration of the helicopter may cause sudden and severe hunting to occur.
Default settings values are from beginner to hardcore "0" and in extreme "30".
(In all five default profiles "Roll D gain" value is identical to "Pitch D gain" value.)

- Acceleration

Acceleration of the roll and pitch motion.
Roll and pitch acceleration to the desired speed. When this value is high swashplate will tilt fast when stick is moved.
Default "125" in all configurations.

- Deceleration

Deceleration of the roll and pitch motion.
Roll and pitch deceleration to the desired speed or stop. When stick is returned to center it will take some time (delay) from swash to return. It's normal on FBL helicopters and that returning speed can be controlled with this settings. Lower the value means easier to fly, but it loses some "edge" from the controls.
Default settings values are from beginner "40" to extreme "55".

- Swash deadband RC

The deadband of the aileron and elevator sticks
The RC deadband is to ignore input from sticks that don't return to zero and to remove cross channel stick changes when the sticks are moved to the limit on the two axises. To small a value will make it hard to do single axis maneuvers without a change in the other axis (i.e. a flip ends up rolling left or right during the flip...). Bigger value means that you have to move more rudder stick before anything happens.
This avoids drifting from stick pots and servo noise.
Default "40" in all configurations.

- Swash deadband gyro

The deadband of the roll and pitch sensors.
The Gyro deadband is the value used to ignore small changes coming from the gyro MEMS sensors.
This avoids drifting from gyro and servo noise. Big number results in poor stability and drift. Too small a number can overwork your servos.
Default "4" in all configurations.

- Roll agility

It is equivalent to the maximum roll rate.
Bigger the value faster the helicopter makes rolls.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "60".

- Pitch agility

It is equivalent to the maximum pitch rate
Bigger the value faster the helicopter makes loops.
Default settings values are from beginner "30" to extreme "60".
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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Romis » 04 Oct 2013, 11:46

voblings varētu nebūt no settingiem, bet no tā ka mehāniski kaut kas nav labi, ar beginner mode būtu jālido stabili.
ja ir vibrācija, tad jāskatās vai nav līkas asis, zobrati utt.
ja ir siksna, jāpārbauda vai ir ok.
neaizmirsti pārbaudīt abus hubus, vai nav luftes (pieļaujamā robežā)
ā, un blade balanss arī
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.” L. da Vinci

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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Modrs » 23 Feb 2014, 11:51

vakar izdomāju palidināt FBL heli. Viss tehniskā kārtībā. hvz, ar gebinner settingiem vienalga helis tāds "šustrijs" un neprognozējams salīdzinājumā ar Flybar heli. šad tad pasvaida asti. Vai nu tas copterx gyro ir havaja, vai arī es neko nesaprotu no tiem settingiem. Ir kādam zyx vai copterx gyro un kurš varētu padalīties ar settingiem? parādā nepalikšu.

P.S. es saprotu, ka no lēta fbl kontroliera nevar dabūt ārā konču, bet nu plivināties pensionāru stilā ar viņu vajadzētu tik pat labi, kā ar FB heli

dzelži:
gyro copterX CX-3X1000,
Tower pro MG90 swash servo,
Hitec HSG 5084MG rudder servo
Turnigy 9x pults ar pāršūtosoftu

edit: tikko izlidoju ar šadiem settingiem:
Basic settings
Yaw total gain 40
Pitch total gain 40
Roll total gain 40

Swash tunning
Roll P gain 35
Roll D gain 15
Roll I gain 35
Pitch agility 35
Roll agility 35
Swash deadband gyro 15
Swash deadband RC 40
deceleration 40
Acceleration 90
Pitch D gain 35
Pitch I gain 35
Pitch P gain 35

Tail tunning
Yaw P gain 40
Yaw D gain 40
Yaw I gain 40
Tail compensate cyc>tail 0
Tail compensate Col>tail 0
Pirouette speed R 45
Pirouette speed L 45
Tail deadband gyro 20
Tail deadband RC 40
Deceleration R 30
Deceleration L 30
Acceleration R 90
Acceleration L 90

samazinot visus gainus, samazinās voblings, bet helis vējā peld lielā amplitūdā.
Tātad, vai kāds no šejieniešiem var padalīties ar ieteikumiem?
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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Modrs » 05 Mar 2014, 19:04

Jopcik, 16.02 uzsūtīju, šodien saņēmu :D
edge wrote:
Romis wrote:
Shranky wrote:Modri,
no nākamās algas iegādājies sev http://www.goodluckbuy.com/kbar-5-3-4pr ... opter.html
tas ir klonēts Mini Vbar, cilvēki runā, ka dzelži ir 1=1 un software arī iet no mikado.
būs tev HK450 monstrs :wink:
pats būtu pamēģinājis, bet man nav kur iebāzt šo
sev šādu pasūtīju, gaidu kad atnāks noziņošu.
Ja tiešām tas ir 1:1 vbar tad ļoti laba izvēle par dosja cenu !
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nu nekā tur nav iekšā :shock:

ak jā, pietam pirms pāris dienām saņēmu šadu epastu
Dear Modris :

I am Joanna of on GoodLuckBuy.Com, we shipped order by on 2014-02-17 to you.
According to our estimate, your order should arrive soon.If you still haven't recived your order now, don't hurry, we're also unable to help you determine where is your order for we send by Non-Registered airmail.
However if your order has still not arrived by 2014-03-19, please let us know and we will refund your payment.

Due to Xmas holiday and cold weather,your package would take longer time than except to arrive.Please contact us before leaving bad feedback when you think your parcel will never arrive.We are responsible sellers and glad to solve the issue for you!

Regards from Joanna
not bad
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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Romis » 05 Mar 2014, 19:25

jap, man arī tikko šitāds K-bārs atnāca :D
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.” L. da Vinci

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Re: Viss par un ap Žiroskopiem

Post by Modrs » 05 Mar 2014, 19:52

Jautājums - kur tagad dabūt softu?

edit: pats atradu google ierakstot mini v-bar 5.3 software download. izleca kkāda ķīnas lapa. 49mb. Ja vajag, pameklēšu linku, jo pazaudēju pēc pc restarta. ieinstalēju, viss strādā :)
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