HK Zlin delivered

Lidmašīnas..
User avatar
UldisK
Profesors
Posts:6361
Joined:08 Jan 2012, 14:46
Location:Kuldīga
Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by UldisK » 19 Aug 2015, 22:40

Do not install giro, maybe after the first 10 flights. Even if it is not turned on, it's dangerous. Servo only in Rx !!!
You are flying well and want to learn new figure. Giro this process hampers, you do not feel real plane.
Saturday bring motor and plane to Kuldiga, maybe we think together how to install.

User avatar
solentlife
Speciālists
Posts:167
Joined:28 Sep 2010, 20:41
Location:Ventspils

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by solentlife » 20 Aug 2015, 00:53

Motor mount is already created .... I just need motor from repair.

Gyro can come out easy - I was 50-50 about it.

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

User avatar
UldisK
Profesors
Posts:6361
Joined:08 Jan 2012, 14:46
Location:Kuldīga

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by UldisK » 20 Aug 2015, 08:43

solentlife wrote:Gyro can come out easy - I was 50-50 about it.

easy, hard.It does not matter. Their just this type and weight of this plane should not be. It is a place where that can happen and servo in gasoline engine wore out quickly. Do you need it? Stabilization of large aerobatic models makes those who do not know how to keep the course and wants to run the show that knows how to fly straight - in fact fly giro, no pilot. :)
And most importantly. gyro does not feel it when the model will fall into. But this 3D flying is important. I'm not talking about small electric models. there may also be.

User avatar
solentlife
Speciālists
Posts:167
Joined:28 Sep 2010, 20:41
Location:Ventspils

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by solentlife » 20 Aug 2015, 15:12

I understand Uldis ... not problem.

I will remove it.

Just for information : The Gyro stabiliser is set to RATE MODE ... not Heading Hold. This means it only acts for when model pushed off line without Pilot command. The Gyro does not keep the model absolute to a line as in HH. It's big help is in wind. To assist Pilot to fly in wind that normally Pilot would not fly. It is still necessary for Pilot to fly the model 100%.

But as said ........ no problem.

I am told that I may get engine back from repair tomorrow Friday ... so I hope to have model at Kuldiga Saturday. Are there any plans for Cirava this weekend .. Sunday ? Kuldiga is small field and I am worried to do first flight in Kuldiga field.

Cheers
Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

User avatar
UldisK
Profesors
Posts:6361
Joined:08 Jan 2012, 14:46
Location:Kuldīga

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by UldisK » 20 Aug 2015, 23:38

Nigel , why You not in club skype conference? We talked about the weekend. We fly Saturday Cirava.. 9:30 club together clean asphalt runway. the ~10:30 fly.

We all fly in the wind without stabilization. Your model is a good , so she put frivolous giro .Only FPV flying with stabilization. Stabilization fit only for a straight flying, believe me, none of inertia figure it does not work well. Cheap stabilization does not provide strong servo. Second, they are working with 5V, you do not use the servo potential. Rx must be 6V. BEC switch to 6V not to 5V

User avatar
solentlife
Speciālists
Posts:167
Joined:28 Sep 2010, 20:41
Location:Ventspils

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by solentlife » 21 Aug 2015, 00:38

Today was heavy day .... business went on till late evening.

I will try and get early Cirava to help.

The gyro comes out - no problem. I was just explaining the gyro for those who may not understand.

The BEC is stated as 5V ... but in fact gives 5.5v and full rate with no loss. It is 100% stable supply - better than variable 6V .... I did plenty tests at home for the Extra to replace the NiMH .....

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

User avatar
edge
Profesors
Posts:1378
Joined:24 Aug 2008, 17:05

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by edge » 21 Aug 2015, 08:52

Hi,

It is a really bad idea to put the cheap gyro in nitro or gas engine airplan, the problem is vibration. But anyway, my suggestion use Powerbox iGyro with gps sensor. Gps sensor is the part of gyro algoritm (calculate speed) and stabilisation sensitivity. And this smart iGyro have one chanel for gyro sensitivity, you can switch normal/hold/+hold on the fly for flight modes.
Dont use the gyro on Ruder in normal flying the problems will be to make a cornering (use AIL + ELE) and what will happen? The Gyro try to push back Ruder on zero position :).
You can use gyro switch thrid position wher been defined Ruder Gyro and now you can howering like 3d master :)

More info about iGyro http://www.powerbox-systems.com/en/prod ... stems.html

User avatar
solentlife
Speciālists
Posts:167
Joined:28 Sep 2010, 20:41
Location:Ventspils

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by solentlife » 21 Aug 2015, 12:07

All gyros in Model use same MEMS foundation. In fact are same as Helicopter gyros but in 3 axis not 1.

Vibration is not a problem in fact based on mounting correctly with foam double side tape and secure with tie-wrap for safety. BUT do not tighten tie-wrap so it compresses foam pad to much. Consider a Helicopter .. vibration ?

Rudder fighting Ail-Ele ... also not a problem as anyone flying full function should be using rudder stick as well. Second the gyro if set to RATE MODE will not create a problem. If you use HEADING HOLD - that IS a problem and rudder will certainly make correction you do not want.

I use re-flashed Orange 3 axis which gives me full control from Tx to what Gyro does ... from ZERO to full rate. I can even vary Heading Hold if I set program mix. But I do not allow Heading Hold for very good reason ... I want to fly the model - not the gyro.

GPS is like CA glue ... one of worlds most misunderstood items.

My previous career was with GPS and forerunner Transit Sat Nav. The GPS has no knowledge of direction or attitude until it physically moves and then it needs enough iterations to calculate the results. Initially these results will be in large error but over repeated iterations will average out to arrive at more accurate result. ALL GPS calculations are based on ONE physical matter : Position. That is Geographically horizontal and altitude. There is no other format in GPS. What has happened later is ACCELEROMETERS have been added to GPS and MEMS Gyros to give greater accuracy of movement horizontally and vertically. These two together combine to provide final results.
I have no need of GPS based technology in any of my models.

I have disconnected the Gyro ... I do not want argument. So please can we close the subject of Gyro ...

My main worry is getting the engine back in time.

Please - I do not post to upset or argue with anyone ... I am just being honest.

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

User avatar
binary
Profesors
Posts:2668
Joined:23 Sep 2012, 22:09
Location:Rīga, Baldone, Grobiņa, Varakļāni
Contact:

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by binary » 21 Aug 2015, 12:38

solentlife wrote:What has happened later is ACCELEROMETERS have been added to GPS and MEMS Gyros to give greater accuracy of movement horizontally and vertically. These two together combine to provide final results.
Interesting statement…

Accelerometers and gyros are used to create INS - inertial navigation system, which is used for calculating position, orientation and speed. As wiki states, this concept was originally developed for use in rockets long before GPS was invented. Therefore statement "GPS was added to INS" would be more feasible than "INS was added to GPS".

On the other hand, all those sensors weren't available for use in RC models (and in tiny electronic devices in general) for long time… If I'm not mistaken, first models of currently popular smartphones had GPS, but didn't have any gyro or accelerometer. So yeah, small electronics used GPS for calculating speed and direction instead of INS.
do you ever feel that if you weren't paid to write code, you'd do it anyway?

User avatar
solentlife
Speciālists
Posts:167
Joined:28 Sep 2010, 20:41
Location:Ventspils

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by solentlife » 21 Aug 2015, 12:56

binary wrote:
solentlife wrote:What has happened later is ACCELEROMETERS have been added to GPS and MEMS Gyros to give greater accuracy of movement horizontally and vertically. These two together combine to provide final results.
Interesting statement…

Accelerometers and gyros are used to create INS - inertial navigation system, which is used for calculating position, orientation and speed. As wiki states, this concept was originally developed for use in rockets long before GPS was invented. Therefore statement "GPS was added to INS" would be more feasible than "INS was added to GPS".

On the other hand, all those sensors weren't available for use in RC models (and in tiny electronic devices in general) for long time… If I'm not mistaken, first models of currently popular smartphones had GPS, but didn't have any gyro or accelerometer. So yeah, small electronics used GPS for calculating speed and direction instead of INS.
I'm trying to avoid this discussion because it gets into technical areas.

Just to give a little history of my family :

My Father was a Navigator from the WW2 in Bombers. Later he became Chief Flight Operations Director for UK CAA. In the years running up to that position - he was part of teams that developed :

In Flight Refueling
Air Accident Investigation Bureau and techniques
Inertial Navigation Systems for Civil Aircraft
Doppler Navigation Systems for Civil Aircraft
Concorde Navigation and Flight safety
Pioneered Civil Aircraft transit of North Pole routes with BOAC - I still have his Nav Computer used for that.
et al et al ... the list goes on.

I spent my young years listening and learning from him. Later I became a Ships navigator with traditional methods but later was instructed for Satellite equipment - Communications and Navigation. His teachings and my education together give me a good foundation on this subject. I don't know all answers but I have possibly a little more understanding than many people.

For many years I have run Internet Discussion groups and Information sites for GPS to help yachtsmen and amateur users understand what they have in their hands.

INS relies on displacement of a gyro from its natural inclination. Couple a number together and you simply get the 3 directions of movement. INS does NOT calculate speed in any way. It ESTIMATES the speed and position data based on external inputs such as airspeed and its own gyro displacement. Accelerometers add to the equation. INS was actually updated by external data fed to the aircraft to correct navigational errors ... such as Radio Beacons etc. Without regular updates - INS would drift of to large errors.

Can we get back to Model Flying ? Can I leave work out if this ?

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

User avatar
binary
Profesors
Posts:2668
Joined:23 Sep 2012, 22:09
Location:Rīga, Baldone, Grobiņa, Varakļāni
Contact:

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by binary » 21 Aug 2015, 13:17

solentlife wrote:Can we get back to Model Flying ?
Fine with me :)
do you ever feel that if you weren't paid to write code, you'd do it anyway?

User avatar
solentlife
Speciālists
Posts:167
Joined:28 Sep 2010, 20:41
Location:Ventspils

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by solentlife » 21 Aug 2015, 13:36

binary wrote:
solentlife wrote:Can we get back to Model Flying ?
Fine with me :)
Cheers .... :occasion5:

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

User avatar
solentlife
Speciālists
Posts:167
Joined:28 Sep 2010, 20:41
Location:Ventspils

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by solentlife » 21 Aug 2015, 17:58

Just had call from Master .... engine ready ....

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

User avatar
UldisK
Profesors
Posts:6361
Joined:08 Jan 2012, 14:46
Location:Kuldīga

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by UldisK » 21 Aug 2015, 21:00

Congratulations, tomorrow.

User avatar
solentlife
Speciālists
Posts:167
Joined:28 Sep 2010, 20:41
Location:Ventspils

Re: HK Zlin delivered

Post by solentlife » 21 Aug 2015, 22:44

All fitted ... needles set for slight rich for first runs ... had her running tonight .............. plenty of power.

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

Post Reply