Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

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solentlife
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Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by solentlife » 20 Nov 2014, 20:22

Today I tried with 13x6 APC propeller .... and also re-flashed 3 axis Gyro.

The Orange 3 axis stabiliser was re-flashed with latest software and gives far better rate control. I set the 9xr Tx to have the 3 position switch give ZERO, 30% and 70% gyro settings.

The engine fired up and the 13x6 did not make much difference to the needle settings - this I was surprised ... but anyway - on we go.

The motor was tested vertical and horizontal with no change.

First I switched OFF the gyro and took-off from Ventspils runway in low D/R mode ... no change from previous flights ... the 13x6 did not seem to be less than the 14x7 fitted before. I think the blade design of the APC has more area than the previous wood prop.

Flight was smooth but still showed lack of real power. Rolls and loops were clean as usual.

Then I got high and switched in 30% gyro. The model made no sign of change - but flight was clearly easier and smoother ... the little bit of wind shift made no effect on her. BUT roll rate was slower ... maybe 20% slower ... but so clean ! The nose stayed straight with no drop or rise ...

OK - that was a success ... what about 70% ? Flicked switch to position 3 @ 70% ... an initial slight wag of tail and she was absolutely straight and true ... I could take hands of and she just flew straight on ... ignoring any wind shift or gusts. But that's not the point - my test was to see effect on flight. Loop - excellent and clean ... Rolls - this is where the high rate showed. The roll rate was at least 50% reduced from no gyro ... slow ! But clean.

I flew her around getting used to the different levels of gyro ... and then flicked to 70% and lined up for landing ... she slowed, floated in ... absolutely nice ..

But I have to say - I am disappointed in the lack of power from the OS FL70 ... it is just not the motor for this model. I will be looking out for a new Cowling and look to fit my 15cc Gasoline engine later ... The old cowling having obviously been cut for two different motors by previous owner will not survive cutting again to new motor.

Video to follow ...

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by solentlife » 21 Nov 2014, 00:04

Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

The Gardener
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by The Gardener » 21 Nov 2014, 05:15

What I have been concerned about what happens in this world is, how could you possibly trust your airplane to be controlled by a orange stabilizer which can crap out at any point and on top of that, by a 50 dollar radio. Your engine alone is worth more, you have been in modeling for quite a few years and I remember you from the shop when I used to work there, what is the idea of putting all that cheap crap on your stuff and have it eventually go down on you? As a display pilot, you most probably know terms "safely" "responsibly", that china crap is supporting neither of those.

As for power, I had the same plane, It did superb on 14x4 with an O.S surpass 70 as well as on 70 ultimate, and I have seen one fly on a Saito .82, all did a remarkable job, FL is the cheap version but still powerful enough to hover the thing and do decent 3D, Get yourself a good low pitch prop, Set needles up nicely, throw out all the useless stuff out of it to save some weight and she will do just fine. Don't even think about gas in that plane, it is porno, seriously, illegal one, I must add.

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by solentlife » 21 Nov 2014, 09:48

WOW!

Maybe 'Gardener' you might ask Uldisk about the model and the engine? He has flown it and same conclusion. To do 3D and hover with that 70? Sorry it will not - there is thought that the motor I have has a fault, as it loses compression sometimes when starting ....
I am aware that there is a Saito 82 powered on Youtube that does.

The weight of my Extra is not more than normal.

As to my radio and stab - again maybe ask Uldisk.... who himself used 9x in his Sukhoi. My radio uses FrSky module / Rx's... recognised as leading control gear.

You are entitled to opinions, as we all are.

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by The Gardener » 21 Nov 2014, 17:24

solentlife wrote:My radio uses FrSky module / Rx's... recognised as leading control gear.

You are entitled to opinions, as we all are.

Nigel
Good luck on that one, just don't kill anyone :)

As for power on 70, you may want to check the piston and ring gap as well as liner and valve clearances on that one.
Spektrum, I used DSM2 since day one, not a glitch, now my radio is used by Agris with both planes he got from me, big pitts and Yak, that will work for years to come. I have 2x DX9's now, a taranis (which I discarded the moment I received it :) ) and getting DX18 in the mail tomorrow, Spek 9 is POS, I hate the plasticky quality, but the control protocol however is good and there is service for those products opposed to turnigy. I sent my JR 12x to Japan this past summer to check and upgrade, mind you it is 5 years old or so, not a single dime charged for services, just shipping to and from. That alone is a selling point for me. I have had my share of Turnigies too, pots on them suck and gimbals are imprecise it simply feels and does what a 50 buck radio would, I would however never trust it anything more valuable than a foamie, regardless if what module is in it. Having a module in the radio by the way creates latency, for a sport flier it's all ok, for a guy that likes to wring it out- it is noticeable compared to standard setups (22.5ms opposed to 11), I see a radio as an investment, so I never have to doubt it's reliability and comfort.

Enough of this bullcrap, check valves and ring gap as well as piston/ cylinder for scoring, it HAS to hover and do fine on 30% fuel and 70 size engine. Prop however needs to go down in pitch to 14x4, that is what I found best for that plane and engine combo.

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by solentlife » 21 Nov 2014, 18:10

The Gardener wrote:
solentlife wrote:My radio uses FrSky module / Rx's... recognised as leading control gear.

You are entitled to opinions, as we all are.

Nigel
Good luck on that one, just don't kill anyone :)

As for power on 70, you may want to check the piston and ring gap as well as liner and valve clearances on that one.
Spektrum, I used DSM2 since day one, not a glitch, now my radio is used by Agris with both planes he got from me, big pitts and Yak,
The Pitts .. hope it wasn't the Python that totalled at Saldus ?
that will work for years to come.
you know full well that Spektrum fell foul on the DSM2 format and had to revise to DSMx ... even JR - the big brother walked away from Spektrum and their DSM2 ...
I have 2x DX9's now, and getting DX18 in the mail tomorrow...
Note these are DSMx ...
a taranis (which I discarded the moment I received it ...
Uldisk seems to like his and seems to be a popular radio - stores all over sell out very quick on it ..
Spek 9 is POS, I hate the plasticky quality, but the control protocol however is good ...
AGAIN DSMx ... but 9 gets good reports from many ... but of course it was Horizon attempt to get back market ... like most companies do - they lose sight of customer, price themselves out even though they use similar to budget ..
and there is service for those products opposed to turnigy. I sent my JR 12x to Japan this past summer to check and upgrade, mind you it is 5 years old or so, not a single dime charged for services, just shipping to and from. That alone is a selling point for me.
Fine .. no argument there ... but having had various TOP brand radios over many years - with failures on them - I am not convinced of the quality or service arguments. Funny enough, I know ex-manager of McGregor Radio in UK - who distribute JR ... I don't think you would like to hear his comments about changes ...
Enough of this bullcrap, check valves and ring gap as well as piston/ cylinder for scoring, it HAS to hover and do fine on 30% fuel and 70 size engine. Prop however needs to go down in pitch to 14x4, that is what I found best for that plane and engine combo.
Yes - enough of the sales crap ...

30% ? I hope you are not suggesting 30% Nitro-methane ?? Sorry but I value an engine more than blowing its guts out ... I will not use over 10% nitro-methane ... For some reason fuel originally set-up for high rpm car jobs has infiltrated the aero side .. a not good idea in my opinion.
This is also as you correctly said before : a cheap 70 4 stroke engine ...

if it was a 70 2 stroker - I would expect it to climb and carve the heavens asunder.
I am ready to listen and debate sensible ways to get the model to perform - but lets leave the sales crap aside ?

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by UldisK » 21 Nov 2014, 19:08

Stabilization- I agree with "the Gardener" . 3D or aerobatic airplane it is redundant.
And orange models are dangerous.

About X9, if it has already flown a long time, she is safe and sufficiently accurate. Man she fully satisfied, and I flew with orginal Tx Rx

Yes model power is too low. I am not a specialist nitro engines , but the greater the power needed.

Nigel, fly tomorrow?
Last edited by UldisK on 21 Nov 2014, 19:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by The Gardener » 21 Nov 2014, 19:13

You can't blow guts out of that engine with nitro. For +- normal results you use 20-30% HELI fuel on those engines, then they last a lifetime and run happily. Yamada (YZ) does not support anything below 20 at all for their 4 strokers.

As for pitts, I have no idea if it is the one you talk about, but it is a big ass python, 100 cc size. I hope that was not crashed, it did not deserve that.

Spektrum threw JR off, not JR went off DSM :) I know that part way too well. DSM2 never had an issues, only reason for DSMX is multi protocol for telemetry and added integrity for fly in's where there are more than 50 people flying at the same time. In our side of the world, we maybe have total of that many people, let alone flying all together :)

Taranis- nicer version of 9X, same opentx firmware. Decent radio, but only decent.

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by UldisK » 21 Nov 2014, 19:27

The Gardener wrote: Taranis- nicer version of 9X, same opentx firmware. Decent radio, but only decent.
agree

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by solentlife » 21 Nov 2014, 19:34

UldisK wrote:Stabilization- I agree with "the Gardener" . 3D or aerobatic airplane it is redundant.
And orange models are dangerous.
I agree that it is unnecessary - but it was a test vehicle and being unsure of the model - considered one could help other.

The Orange Stab as factory is dfifficult to set gyro rate. That is why firmware was written to clean up the machine. It has been very successful for many.

BUT - the new firmware allows HEADING HOLD - based on LAST stick position . THAT is VERY dangerous and needs to be adjusted out. But overall the unit with later firmware works excellently.

I do plan to remove mine from the Extra, once my testing of it has completed.
About X9, if it has already flown a long time, she is safe and sufficiently accurate. Man she fully satisfied.
Thank-you Uldis ...

I do admit though I will not use FlySky Module for serious flight though. I will only use FrSky.
Yes model power is too low. I am not a specialist nitro engines , but the greater the power needed.
You flew the model and I value your experience on this.
Nigel, fly tomorrow?
OK ... 11.00 Kuldiga ? I will try find place from map on other thread.

Cheers
Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by solentlife » 21 Nov 2014, 19:39

Taranis- nicer version of 9X, same opentx firmware. Decent radio, but only decent
Taranis has no connection to 9x or 9xr. Only in the development of early FrSky gear BEFORE they decided to design own radio. The FlySky Tx was perfect foundation for FrSky and also others to create / develop upon.
OpenTx firmware is totally independent of all radio brands. In fact most 9x and 9xr are er9x when flashed.

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by UldisK » 21 Nov 2014, 19:45

Power is sufficient most of the aerobatic figures (not 3D). But the most extreme situation, it may be running out to save the model.
FrSkay Tx Rx module is beteer then orginal X9, bat original is also good enough for flying direct visibility (not FPV)
I change the X9 to Taranis only accurate stick and muvement moment about center,


Yes , about 11:00
Last edited by UldisK on 21 Nov 2014, 20:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by UldisK » 21 Nov 2014, 19:49

Google maps 56.972529, 21.930287

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by solentlife » 21 Nov 2014, 20:55

UldisK wrote:Google maps 56.972529, 21.930287
Excellent tks ...
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

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Re: Extreme Flight Extra 300 58" update

Post by solentlife » 21 Nov 2014, 20:56

Quote from OS themselves ... from OS-FL70 manual :

"FUEL
The FL-70 should be operated on a methanol based
fuel containing not less than 20% (volumetric) castor
oil, or a top quality synthetic lubricant (or a mixture of
both), plus a small percentage (5-15%) of
nitromethane for improved flexibility and power"


My main occupation for many years in fact has been Fuel blending and also owner of Petrochemical Laboratory in Riga ... which I recently sold of to a competitor.

Nigel
Ex RC Display flyer returned to RC Hobby
It is only the last mm and second that hurts when you crash !
Helicopters - Accidents looking for location to happen !
RC Models a lifetime illness that cannot be cured !
Youtube channel : "solentlifeuk"

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